As Stranger Things draws to a close, creators Matt and Ross Duffer are revealing hidden meanings behind key scenes and as they take a look at comparisons between Dr. Kay (Linda Hamilton) and Dr. Brenner (Matthew Modine).

Hamilton’s Dr. Kay was introduced as a new antagonist in volume one of Stranger Things season 5 as it was revealed she has set up a military command center in the Upside Down to aid in her hunt for Eleven (Millie Bobby Brown). Her fascination with Eleven and her ilk recall Dr. Brenner’s own work with the children.

Now, in an interview with ScreenRant‘s Liam Crowley, the Duffer brothers have addressed the apparent similarities between Dr. Kay and Dr. Brenner as they both have similar motivations. Dr. Kay has taken a far more sinister and darker route than Brenner’s “papa” routine.

Ross Duffer: I think, not that Brenner is a good guy, but that the key difference here is that he did in some way have these paternal feelings for Eleven. And Dr. Kay doesn’t see Eleven like that. She doesn’t see Kali like that.

She sees them really just as a weapon that she can use. She just wants her blood to continue the program. She doesn’t see anything human about Eleven. It doesn’t matter whether Eleven’s doing heroic things or evil things. It’s all moot to Dr. Kay.

That’s a very cold and calculating way to look at it. And so you have to go that if Eleven gets in her hands, it’s even more dangerous than when Brenner happened.

Matt Duffer: Yeah. I mean, she’s just sociopathic.

After her introduction, Dr. Kay was revealed to be experimenting with monsters and holding Eleven’s sister Kali/008 prisoner in the Upside Down. Dr. Brenner was seen as a father-like figure for Eleven all her life, and as she escaped Hawkins Laboratory, she realized the more disturbing truth behind her life.

Both Dr. Brenner and Dr. Kay hold three key similarities, which are their goal of power, control, and knowledge. Both characters had “noble” intentions, according to them, to proceed with their mission, and both would ultimately do whatever it takes to continue despite the moral implications.

Dr. Kay’s apparent lack of emotions towards Kali and Eleven, as well as her surroundings, makes her a real enemy, unlike Brenner, who had too much affection for Eleven, and that ultimately caused his downfall and demise.

Stranger Things has introduced an array of characters, and this season is no different, as not only is Dr. Kay introduced, but also Derek (played by Jake Connelly), who has quickly become a fan favorite for the series and is currently being held prisoner by the show’s main antagonist, Vecna AKA Henry Creel/Dr. Whotsit/001 (played by Jamie Campbell Bower).

Stranger Things season 5 volume 1 and 2, are available to stream on Netflix now, and the finale will be available to stream on December 31.